lowlife
4:02 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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Re Hoddle being overlooked in favour of Wilkins, Hoddle himself did this when he didn’t pick Le Tissier at the park of his career.
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southbankbornnbred
3:59 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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In fairness to Southgate, he does generally get the defensive side of things right - when he can pick his best players. Last night was an exception. We generally give little away, even in recent games against Germany and Italy.
But he has few ideas about creating and scoring chances if it is not Kane. Because he overloads 'attacking' players (or players in attacking positions) with defensive duties and instructions.
He comes from a long line of England managers who did that: Robson, Taylor, Capello, Hodgson.
Who remembers when Taylor played Gary Pallister - a largely immobile 6ft 4" centre half - at left-back just to mark Flo at set pieces? Or Capello's great decision to play Gerrard on the left-wing in a World Cup? Wilkins alongside Bryan Robson, instead of the far superior Hoddle, in several tournaments under Robson.
England tend to have managers too scared to lose, rather than planning to win. So they drop innovation and creativity.
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southbankbornnbred
3:50 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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I do agree that England have been sussed by well-organised sides (like Italy in the final last year onwards).
Didn't take much to work it out. Southgate's obsession with defensive solidity, nine players performing essentially defence-first roles, means good sides have only got to keep a close eye on two players - generally Kane and Sterling - to ruin England's 'creativity' and goal threat.
That's the real tragedy of the past year so far - Southgate still hasn't worked out that he needs to loosen the defensive reins a little and play one or two more creative minds - and allow them to create (rather than give creative players instructions to press and defend). But he just can't bring himself to do it.
Playing Mount (no goals and no assists from open play in the Euros) as a left-winger, with instructions to press high up the pitch and shut off the opponents' distribution from the back, ahead of Grealish or Foden...that's Southgate in one tactical step.
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Side of Ham
3:35 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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Yep we've been sussed, don't concede corners and don't give Kane a chance to do his poleaxed routine......
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eusebiovic
3:07 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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Let's face it...Gareth had a more than easy run to the later stages of the past two tournaments - it might not be so easy this time.
Plus, I can see the youthful Yanks causing him and us some discomfort - remember where you read it first...
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BRANDED
3:05 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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We’ve looked shit for a while. Its all about the attack. I just think other teams have sussed us.
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Eerie Descent
2:57 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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I'm going out on a limb here, but I've seen nothing in Tomori, Gomez or White that convinces me that they are world beaters that would make a difference, but even so, none of them didn't play due to fatigue, which is what you're claiming. Maguire would struggle to get in the San Marino team on last seasons form, so I won't bother with him.
Left back I'll give you. One position.
Every goalkeeper we have is shit, and goalkeepers do not suffer with fatigue.
Would Gallagher get into the Hungary team? He'd probably be their best player, along with Bowen if he was Hungarian. There's talk of him having a £50mil price tag for potential suitors.
Fatigue has fuck all to do with it. You're completely wrong, as proved. We have a shit manager who is more worried about his personal woke reputation than football, and half a squad of players who see playing for England as just another game. Sad times.
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southbankbornnbred
2:54 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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The whole thing had an “end of term” feel about it.
Absolutely pointless.
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southbankbornnbred
2:49 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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But several of the starters last night will not be at the World Cup. Guaranteed.
What will he have learned from playing Reece James at left-back? Not to play Reece James at left back? That’s not a long mental journey for any manager.
Guehi?
Gallagher at this point?
What did he learn last night from that game that he didn’t already know? Not to play a near full-strength side with your sixth (or worse) centre back and no left back?
Great, he’ll take that to the biggest tournament in the world!
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aldgate
2:46 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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Stones needs to concentrate fully on defending first or he’s just a liability against better sides. Same with Maguire. They are our first choice which is why two defensive midfielders play in front of them - they can’t be trusted not to believe the hype that they are Moore-esque ball players
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Lee Trundle
2:43 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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"Again, what’s the point in those games in mid-June?"
To get ready for the world cup? We only have 2 more games before that starts.
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southbankbornnbred
2:38 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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If your back four consists of your ‘6th’ choice centre back (surely Maguire, Stones, Tomori, Gomez when fit, White and possibly others come in ahead of Guehi?) and a right-back in the left-back slot (for the first time at international level) then you can say 50% of your defence is below even reserve standard.
Add a questionable keeper (definitely not your first choice), an unproven winger (who we love, but hasn’t proved himself at all at international level) and a midfielder unlikely to make the WC squad (Gallagher)...and your starting line-up is very much well below par.
Again, what’s the point in those games in mid-June?
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Eerie Descent
2:28 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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Who are the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th choice centre backs that were fatigued and couldn't play?
As for left back, 1 position we have injuries/loss of form in. Big fucking deal. Hungary's 1st choice left back would be our 10th choice.
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southbankbornnbred
2:26 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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Yes, I am telling you that: because those players played Hungary (almost at full strength) and got thrashed.
The scoreline was exaggerated by an unusual shots/goals ratio and the last goal coming after the sending off (I think?). But Hungary reached the Euros and are a half-decent side. You learn little from playing your 5th or 6th choice centre back (and “left” back) against them.
Pointless games.
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ted fenton
2:23 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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England Kneel - Hungary 4
Get off your knees and try and play football.
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Eerie Descent
2:21 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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Pssst, southbank: are you telling me those players weren't good enough to beat Hungary?
And who is 'etc' (apart from Rice) that would've made such a huge difference? And let's be honest, every England fan last summer was saying the well rested Phillips was better than Rice last summer.
I'm eager to know who the 2nd, 3rd & 4th choice players in each position are that were rested. Take your time, fella.
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Side of Ham
2:19 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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Trundle, the thing that stands out from that list is NONE of those players are the real difference in a those teams winning things and most of them are in and out of their respective teams.
Take for instance the most creative of those players Grealish & Foden.....both are not the best creative players in that Man City team in fact I think they'd struggle to get in the top 3 there with the players they have, this is the perspective we need to start seeing about English players.....great in a great team but rarely essential or the difference.
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southbankbornnbred
2:17 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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Pssst, Eerie: you’re missing the point again, fella. Leaving out Rice etc, and playing some of the fresher players, that absolutely WAS partly about fatigue. It affects your selection, you lose some of your better players etc. So you play second or third stringers. Sometimes against other sides’ best XI (or closer to it).
Some of those lads who played last night are 4th/5th choices in their positions and won’t even be close to the WC squad. Which reiterated the point: why bother with such games in mid-June?
It all felt like the time we were asked to get excited about Earl Barrett and Gary Charles playing against Malaysia.
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Sven Roeder
2:12 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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My thought watching last night was that it was all about the players Wokegate hadnt picked
Kane was playing this deep lying no10 role and looked up and couldnt see SON
Sterling was hovering at the far post waiting for tap ins created by the genius of DE BRUYNE & B SILVA
Unfortunately an English version of those doesnt exist
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Eerie Descent
2:08 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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As I posted earlier, and I didn't include Kyle Walker who played 31 games, 8 out of the 10 players started around or less than 40 games last year (when you take into consideration sub appearances). And most of them are early 20's.
That is NOT a gruelling season, so this fatigue thing is absolute bollocks. If it was 8 of them that played 50+ games, I could half understand, but only 2 outfield players played that many games, Bowen & Kane, and Bowen looked sharp as he was clearly desperate to play for England.
Have a pint of that in The Windmill.
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Lee Trundle
2:07 Wed Jun 15
Re: Gareth Southgate.
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Alexander-Arnold (premier league and champions league winner)
Walker (4 times premier league winner)
James (champions league winner)
Stones (4 times premier league winner)
Chilwell (champions league winner)
Henderson (premier league and champions league winner)
Grealish (premier league winner)
Sterling (4 times premier league winner)
Foden (4 times premier league winner)
Yeah we have some some shit like Maguire to pad it out but that's a decent core of WINNERS to build a team from. And they're all pretty much first choice.
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